Balance Thread: PVE Edition

  • Making this thread seeing as how the game is now, more or less, back to its TW form, so it could be a good time to have people say what could be balanced for PvE because PvP makes people rage because PvP isn't fully done yet (Budokai). Now I say "could" because this isn't my say so on whether it actually happens or not. I also would like to see you guys give a detailed explanation on what you believe needs balancing, not short stuff like "just buff Grand Chef and Dark Warrior" and such. I'll provide an example.


    Burning Attack from the Swordsman tree should have its AOE range reduced from 20m to 10m. The attack's low damage output (outside of crits), late mastery level, and the playstyle of the class only makes this attack more of a hindrance than an aid due to making the Swordsman very likely to attract too many mobs to handle at once. By reducing the AOE range, you're cutting down the risk of grabbing too many mobs while still retaining a decent range skill, which can become deadly should the player move toward using an Energy Swordsman.


    So anyway, post away.

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    Sapha (BlazingSaphi in Open Beta): Turtle Hermit
    BlazingScar: Swordsman

  • well i don't Really have a Suggestion but i need to Correct you , Sm Range is the Same as TW , also my only Suggestion is To Fix Stuff ain't working ( Boudkai , ccbd150 , Cell x etc Dungeons , Missing Event Pets.......)


    i'll Enjoy this Thread , Incoming Suggestion's Blowing up (Time To Grab ma Noodle & watch em.)tumblr_miu89zquPU1r72ht7o1_r1_500.gif

  • well i don't Really have a Suggestion but i need to Correct you , Sm Range is the Same as TW , also my only Suggestion is To Fix Stuff ain't working ( Boudkai , ccbd150 , Cell x etc Dungeons , Missing Event Pets.......)


    i'll Enjoy this Thread , Incoming Suggestion's Blowing up (Time To Grab ma Noodle & watch em.)tumblr_miu89zquPU1r72ht7o1_r1_500.gif

    I know it is. I was providing an example. Also bug fixes don't count as a balance suggestion.

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    Sapha (BlazingSaphi in Open Beta): Turtle Hermit
    BlazingScar: Swordsman

  • Poko Speed buff should give 40% speed boost



    :DDDD



    But no, a sane suggestion would be:

    DW:

    - Energy Siege does Increased Crit when Critical hit is successful (This will hopefully make the class a bit more viable at least).

    - Powerful Roar's taunt should have 100% successrate.


    Poko:

    - Summons do higher damage to make them more viable during leveling (They do around a max of 150-200 damage every 2-3 seconds and usually tend to miss)


    Grand Chef:

    - Reduce 35CON CD down to 30 seconds (this is also an indirect PvP Buff)

    - Gourmet Mastery gives CON and ENG according to the value of the LP and EP they give. (Making their 23% more useful on themselves)


    Plasma:

    - Confusing Drumbeat CD reduced to 1 minute.

    - Black Hole Beat Cast time reduced to 3 seconds.


    Swordsman:

    - Burning Attack CD reduced to 15 seconds.


    Shadow Knight:

    - Self Destruction Wave does NOT do increased Damage on Crit.



    Those are all I could think of in the past 5 minutes or so :/

  • Do you realize how hard it will be to balance PvE AND PvP? You'd need to buff certain stuff, but make sure it doesnt interfere a lot with PvP too. And you'd need a lot of facts and evidence for Daneos to even try what you want changed. Right now for the most part though you just stack speed.

  • The only way to truely "balance things" is to have seperate formulas on mobs and player calculations.

    I'd probably propose to have players and mobs both do more damage to each other than in player vs player but DON't increase the mobs defense.(leveling as a Dark Warrior, Mighty Majin, or Dende is already a pain in the ass.) Tanks will have actually have some use for all that LP/defense while grinding, while humans will get destroyed much easier if they're not careful, but BOTH get great benefits out of the damage boost. Skills like a Spiritualist's Slow and the Wonder Majin/Dragon Clan's paralyze spam will lower duration much more drastically each time it hits, forcing them to actually do something about a stronger enemy's approach.

    Some crazier idea that sounds fun to me is a randomly activated rage-mechanic. The enemies' attack speed can be slightly buffed in exchange for alot of defense when below 50% LP. When it activates, they negate any stun currently active and run at you with 50% boosted speed. That mechanic obviously shouldn't be used for bosses.

    Maybe one day you could run a test where mobs give and take 20% more damage than usual and see how it's liked.(or increase the mobs' attack speed by 20%) I bet most players would find it more exciting.

  • I just realized something, people say, "We need speed to make spamming dungeons faster." But cant we just make dungeons give out more rewards for less spam needed?Also higher CC floor tickets? Maybe even have CC floor 51 ( or whatever floor) tickets sold at a merch for like 1kk as a zenni drain to help economy? That way we won't need speed, and then PvE will actually take stradegy. Also balancing PvE is pretty useless with speed being broken right now so something has to be done about that my idea seems to work though.

  • I just realized something, people say, "We need speed to make spamming dungeons faster." But cant we just make dungeons give out more rewards for less spam needed?Also higher CC floor tickets? Maybe even have CC floor 51 ( or whatever floor) tickets sold at a merch for like 1kk as a zenni drain to help economy? That way we won't need speed, and then PvE will actually take stradegy. Also balancing PvE is pretty useless with speed being broken right now so something has to be done about that my idea seems to work though.

    Giving out more rewards doesn't solve the issue with speed abuse, which is one of those things that needs priority in balancing considering it forces players to buy expensive gear and shuts out a lot of classes to use in speed parties.


    And while balancing is hard to do with speed being an issue, it doesn't mean there's some places that we can talk about. I personally like EchoSon's idea of increasing damage for both players and mobs without touching defense. It's a similar idea that's use in Fallout 4's Survival mode, but without the extra goods the game grants you.

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    Sapha (BlazingSaphi in Open Beta): Turtle Hermit
    BlazingScar: Swordsman

  • Anyway, I guess something Grand Chefs can benefit from is some sort of passive that boosts crit rate or something? Their skills already have a high base power. They just need something to accommodate for their low physical attack seeing as how STR isn't getting buffed anytime soon.

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    Sapha (BlazingSaphi in Open Beta): Turtle Hermit
    BlazingScar: Swordsman

  • Giving out more rewards doesn't solve the issue with speed abuse.

    Well, more rewards means less spam needed. People only wanted speed to spam dungeons faster, so of course with more rewards, speed would get capped to around 50/75% for no abuse. I forgot to mention that.

    They just need something to accommodate for their low physical attack seeing as how STR isn't getting buffed anytime soon.

    Well idk when but STR got nerfed to around 1 STR = .9 but now its to 1 STR = 1.4 (Pretty sure at one point it was 1.5) But yeah the reason why people take Ultis over GC is because of buffs, Ultis give the main dish with buffs while GC is just appetizers for plat mainly. Which buffs to buff though? Idk I don't play GC but I do know their buffs lean more on the offensive side. (Hit rate/Dex buff and Sol/Str buff) Those ones aren't that great compared to Ultis so I guess those.

  • Well idk when but STR got nerfed to around 1 STR = .9 but now its to 1 STR = 1.4 (Pretty sure at one point it was 1.5) But yeah the reason why people take Ultis over GC is because of buffs, Ultis give the main dish with buffs while GC is just appetizers for plat mainly. Which buffs to buff though? Idk I don't play GC but I do know their buffs lean more on the offensive side. (Hit rate/Dex buff and Sol/Str buff) Those ones aren't that great compared to Ultis so I guess those.

    Grand Chef has some decent enough buffs yeah, but they're also capable of actually carrying the weight of the team instead of sitting back and doing nothing. I consider them "pseudo-tanks" because of their massive LP that is further enhanced by their buffs and an AOE candy debuff. They probably have other benefits, but I'm not sure what.

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    Sapha (BlazingSaphi in Open Beta): Turtle Hermit
    BlazingScar: Swordsman

  • Grand Chef has some decent enough buffs yeah, but they're also capable of actually carrying the weight of the team instead of sitting back and doing nothing. I consider them "pseudo-tanks" because of their massive LP that is further enhanced by their buffs and an AOE candy debuff. They probably have other benefits, but I'm not sure what.

    Also the main issue here is speed. Even if DW and GC got buffed it'd still be speed all day. Many found the game boring because of PvE just right clicking everything, I feel like once we get to level 70 cap where stats on gear like speed become OP most will quit.


    Yeah, speed is a duct tape fix for the devs giving the Bosses such high amounts of LP and Defense (I honestly think they wasted their profits on drugs when they were working on 70 cap) but it also just ruins the whole aspect of PvE, working together and making a strategy. Also Daneos needs to plays open beta to better understand whats going on or nothing will be fixed properly.

  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be easier to apply to all mobs an invisible debuff which reduces defense / hitrate (whatever the underlying issue is), than work out two seperate formulas for both PVP and PVE? I don't know enough about the calculations but that could be a temp fix until a real solution is thought out.

  • About Shadow knight


    I do not get why self destruct wave should remove that critic buff.

    Mostly because of that SK can farm and be help in PVE at all plus with cast time and LP consume, it is fine as it is and isn't like SK can critic like those classes and it mostly from 10-15 mobs, it critic 5 at the best.


    About SM:

    It don't need Burning Attack, it just needs Flash Slash to be as fighter storm strike or half as it, around 4 m at 20 targets.


    About Poko:

    If we buff now pets, in pvp with poko at max speed, they will be too OP.


    DW

    Energy Siege based on success rate and it will never miss.

    IGN: IcemanBos

    Class: Shadow Knight

    Guild: Pride Warriors

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Iceman ().

  • I'd like to see if Energy Reduction on Spiritualists could get buffed. 194 LP recovered every 2 secs is stupid, especially with the -20 ENG drawback. Also EP recovery could be more like the Wonder Majin's Intense Rage instead of a poor imitation,

    DW

    Energy Siege based on success rate and it will never miss.

    Wouldn't that knock down some of its power though since it needs a debuff to be calculated on Success Rate?


    Speaking of which, I think removing Sharp Slice from DW and Hellzone Grenade from SK might help a bit. Sharp Slice is useless on DW and Hellzone Grenade is just an additional attack that makes SK more powerful than they should be.

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    Sapha (BlazingSaphi in Open Beta): Turtle Hermit
    BlazingScar: Swordsman

  • I heard DW has low base Focus I think even lower than SK (lol) so even if it was based on success rate, with the way mobs are they will still resist it. Since DW already has low dmg like he should, he should atleast be able to land his skills and especially have more Focus than SK since they have so much more dmg with good defense/LP.

  • I heard DW has low base Focus I think even lower than SK (lol) so even if it was based on success rate, with the way mobs are they will still resist it. Since DW already has low dmg like he should, he should atleast be able to land his skills and especially have more Focus than SK since they have so much more dmg with good defense/LP.

    I think having higher FOC would defeat the purpose of the class. They can also stack FOC if they needed to with gear, but again that would most likely be unnecessary.

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    Sapha (BlazingSaphi in Open Beta): Turtle Hermit
    BlazingScar: Swordsman

  • I dont think you get the point of what I was saying.

    SK and DW

    1- SKs Self Destruct does not "critic 5 at the best"... I've seen SK's do the CCBD 108K mob floors in less than 20 seconds with that skill... crit hits like 24k easily.

    This is MEANT to be a big nerf to their overall power.

    2- Been playing DW long enough to tell you that even with +9 or +10 sub the crit and regular damage from Energy Siege absolutely sucks. Does like 5k on non crit and around 9k on Crit. The animation time is almost (if not longer) than the SK cast time for Self Destruct and it doesn't even come close to doing half the damage that attack can do.

    3- SKs have higher base success/hitrate than DWs if you dont already know that... meaning that SKs are completely ... "shitting" on DWs.

    Don't give me the argument of Dragon's Punishment because that's 1- Way off topic 2- Way too useless when you actually have a decent party.

    4- SKs are better than DWs and I don't think I have to repeat that after my post a few weeks back.


    POKO

    1- POKOs will not be "too OP" with pets... the time it takes to summon 1 pet is as long as it takes for any decent player to fully murder you.... and stuns or such will stop the summon.

    2- I don't know how you think pets are anywhere near PvP but I would love to hear your thoughts.


    SM

    1- Burning attack > Flash Slash... Energy Swordsman are fun... unless you really think a buff/nerf system is always supposed to be about how broken or not broken a skill is. Using Burning attack in PvE is hella fun, lowering it's CD will make it even more fun.

  • Post by Herynho ().

    This post was deleted by Aru ().
  • I'd like to see if Energy Reduction on Spiritualists could get buffed. 194 LP recovered every 2 secs is stupid, especially with the -20 ENG drawback. Also EP recovery could be more like the Wonder Majin's Intense Rage instead of a poor imitation,

    Wouldn't that knock down some of its power though since it needs a debuff to be calculated on Success Rate?


    Speaking of which, I think removing Sharp Slice from DW and Hellzone Grenade from SK might help a bit. Sharp Slice is useless on DW and Hellzone Grenade is just an additional attack that makes SK more powerful than they should be.

    That would be lame, both of them needs Hellzones cuz Piccolo is their teacher.

    SK's are offense tankers (tank something but main goal is DPS).

    Sk's do not need any change.

    DW is defense tanker (more defense than DPS)


    It is just sad that you people do not get this.

    Please read DW topic where we discuss about DW buffing, and that only should be edited and added.


    Pokos with speed on dragon with their own speed, kill everyone in few sec, that is why pets' should be touched, sorry.


    SM - well flash slash in general should be better since SM are physical based classes, burning attack is just flashy and attacks too much mobs that SM can not tank, while flash slash maxed would deal higher dmg on mobs and maybe only 1-2 mobs would survive and that shouldn't be problem with tanking.

    IGN: IcemanBos

    Class: Shadow Knight

    Guild: Pride Warriors